Overcoming Mental Health Stigma: Insights from Marc Paisant on Wellness

Imagine navigating life's challenges with a sense of purpose, even when the odds seem stacked against you. That's the journey I, Adrian Starks, share in our latest episode of Your Purposeful Life Podcast, alongside the insightful Mark Paisant, host of the Relatively Normal Podcast. Together, we unpack the layers of mental health, emphasizing the need to openly discuss anxiety, stress, and depression with the same ease we discuss a common cold. Our conversation is not just about sharing struggles but also about finding empowerment through vulnerability and intentionality.

Marc and I are on a mission to normalize mental health conversations, challenging the stigma that often surrounds them. We explore personal stories that reveal the hidden battles behind seemingly successful exteriors, including my own experience of grappling with depression. Marc shares his transformative journey of overcoming negative self-talk and isolation, highlighting how small gestures, like a simple text, can make a world of difference. We also examine the growing trend of public figures sharing their mental health stories and the ripple effect it has on societal norms and personal growth.

This episode is more than just a dialogue; it's a call to action to live with intent and purpose. Whether it's aligning your actions with personal goals or finding strength through fitness and therapy, the path to a fulfilling life comes down to self-compassion and purposeful living. Marc adds to the conversation by sharing insights on shaping your own purpose, reminding us all that our personal challenges are integral to our journey. Tune in to be inspired, empowered, and to find a community that values the human experience in all its complexities.

Chapters

• 0:00 Navigating the Human Mess
• 6:42 Understanding and Supporting Mental Health
• 12:27 Empowering Through Fitness and Therapy
• 24:37 Living With Intent and Purpose
• 29:29 Shaping Your Purpose Your Way

Transcript

Marc Paisant: 0:00

But I think what people are starting to understand is that the conversation doesn't have to be sad and somber. It doesn't have to be. I'm so sad and I'm so depressed. Mental health is something that needs to be focused on every day, because just everyday things affect our stress levels, our anxiety, and as long as we've been living, as long as humans have been around, we found ways to literally not talk about it and to not express it. And if we do, people will still call us weak. People will still think, oh, that person needs help or that person can't handle the pressure, when that is the furthest thing from the truth.

Adrian Starks: 0:43

I'm Adrian Starks, known as Mr Purpose. I'm a speaker, voice narrator, comic card and superhero fanatic, book lover, martial artist, health enthusiast and just a fellow human seeking purpose. Join me and our guest as we navigate the chaotic journey of life, of what I like to call the human mess, to discover how we can craft and share our purpose. There's no single path, but together we'll explore the diverse perspectives to uncover the tools to help you shape your purpose your way. Let's get it and let's create. Welcome back everyone to your Purposeful Life Podcast, and I'm your host, adrian Starks, and today's topic is going to be about how to manage anxiety and stress, along with depression. I have a guest on the day and his name is Mark Paycent, and he is a certified personal trainer and the creator and host of the Relatively Normal Podcast. Mark, welcome to the show today, my friend.

Marc Paisant: 1:40

Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. I'm really looking forward to this conversation.

Adrian Starks: 1:45

Ooh, a conversation about managing and coping with stress and anxiety and all the things going on, and we're also going to talk a little bit later about an action step that the listeners can have that can help them to manage that. But let's get right into this here about anxiety and depression and mental health. It seems to be a big word going around now a lot of hashtags about it.

Marc Paisant: 2:11

Why are we hearing more about this? And that's great that you've noticed it and that people are noticing it it's because it's still kind of a taboo subject. It still has a stigma surrounded by it, but I think what people are starting to understand is that the conversation doesn't have to be sad and somber. It doesn't have to be I'm so sad and I'm so depressed Like. Mental health is something that needs to be focused on every day, because just everyday things affect our stress levels, our anxiety, and for as long as we've been living, as long as humans have been around, we found ways to literally not talk about it and to not express it. And if we do and this is the case for today people will still call us weak, people will still think that person needs help or that person can't handle the pressure, exactly when that is the furthest thing from the truth.

Adrian Starks: 3:09

I like that you brought that up, because the first thing that a lot of people will think is, oh, there's something wrong with them and we need to change that dialogue. There's nothing wrong with them, it's what they're seeing that is happening, and actually they are the ones who are more self-aware, as opposed to a lot of us who just ignore it and this idea of mental health. So I did some research and it looks like there's over 450 million people I'm going to say this again 450 million people across the world who are suffering from some type of mental illness or mental health concern. What do you think about those numbers, mark? Do you think that's possibly true?

Marc Paisant: 3:45

accurate. I personally think it's true. I always say it like this to people. And as I've gotten older and as me and my wife have gotten older my friend base has gotten older. We've gotten to middle age we start to wake up with those little aches and pains. And I got a little shoulder thing going on and I have friends who have a little back thing going on and it's the first thing we say like for uh, yeah, I have a buddy down the street that we literally use the same Cairo and acupuncturist for our shoulder injuries and we we talk about that daily, weekly at least, and at no point would either one of us think to limp down the street or throw ourselves into a situation where we'd injure ourselves more and not have that conversation. It's just so normal, it's so just easy to do.

Marc Paisant: 4:34

And I want that same conversation to be when it comes to how we're feeling. I want us to be able to go and say I have a big interview today and I'm just stressed out about it, and and for someone not to just say, oh, you'll, you'll, you'll do. Okay, you do. Well, you got this, you got this. Because when you know if everyone in the in the world, half the people in the world worked, walked around with knee injuries or you know some type of skin ailment. We would hear about it every day. That would be like we need to do something about this.

Marc Paisant: 5:08

But when those same people are walking around with some sort of mental health issue, then somehow, some way, we're surprised by the numbers. Or we don't believe the numbers or we don't think that's a real thing. When the last time I checked for you to be a living, breathing human being, you have a brain and you have feelings, so that just makes sense. And again, I'm trying to normalize this. I'm trying to make the conversation normal, where it's not two people coming on a podcast and wondering, oh, is this real? Like I want to make, I want to normalize this conversation.

Adrian Starks: 5:42

Speaking of normalize, let's talk about your podcast Relatively Normal Podcast and what is that actually about? What does it entail and who is it for? Mark?

Marc Paisant: 5:51

So I created that show as a platform for men, especially black men, to talk about their feelings.

Adrian Starks: 5:59

To see me we're going to talk about that a little bit later in the show.

Marc Paisant: 6:01

Yeah, yeah exactly To see a six foot five, 235 pound black man say I'm sad today, like I want them to be able to hear that, see that and feel that and be like, oh, marcus, marcus, saying that, maybe maybe I can say that. And it's kind of branched off into a number of different things where I've had guests on, I've had doctors on, I've had therapists on, I've had educators on, I've had a few people from different minority groups talk about what it's like to go through mental health issues in their minority group. Because we know, as Black men and as Black people, the conversation we have not had in our past and the same might go for Native Americans or the gay community or Asian communities. And I I was having a conversation before this all started with my, my therapist, on just a really bad day I was having, and the funny part about it is that the day itself wasn't bad, like nobody was injured, nobody was sick, the sun was out, I had my job, like everything was good.

Marc Paisant: 7:01

But mentally I was in a really dark place and I remember being in. Yeah, I remember being in his office and about halfway through he just asked me straight up. He's just like Mark, tell me, what do you want? Tell me what you want, verbalize that. And I said to him I just want to be like the people outside, I see, without a care in the world, not going through this, this stuff, and I just want to be normal. And he told me he's like, listen, this is your normal. Normal is relative. Like you may just need different coping mechanisms. Like you have a chemical imbalance, possibly, and the way you react to the world and your triggers puts you at a lower place than a lot of people, and the way you constantly overanalyze and constantly think about what's going wrong. It's like there's nothing wrong with that. You just have to, you know, work on it a little bit more and work on your coping mechanisms. And that stuck with me since that day. And then Brain Child was a relatively normal podcast.

Adrian Starks: 8:06

Amazing how an experience can take something and spark it for you. In that moment, you actually reshaped your purpose. You said this is what I'm going to do now and this is what I'm going to do how to serve people. Speaking of serving people, for people listening today, how can they help Say, for instance, someone says oh man, I think I have a friend like that, I think I have a person in my family like that. How can they help someone in need that is experiencing some of those triggers and symptoms that you talked about? Should they just tell them, hey, you need to get some help, or should they go about it a different way?

Marc Paisant: 8:42

Or should they go about it a different way? I love this question and I love answering it because as humans, we really complicate things. We really do, yeah, we do, we do. And you know. I'll give you an example of what I've learned from my friends because I, you know, as I've gotten older, my friend group has gotten smaller quality versus quantity. You're here, yeah, I remember having a conversation, when I started my podcast, with one of my dear friends.

Marc Paisant: 9:14

He actually got me into the business. He has a radio show and a podcast. I told him what I was planning on doing. I said I would love for you to be a guest at some point because I want to know how you felt.

Marc Paisant: 9:26

The moment I opened up and said I've suffered from, you know, depression in my life and from that moment on he would make time out of his day to just call me, to text me, to say hey brother, I'm just thinking about you, I love you and I hope you're doing well. And then his wife started doing it. And then I started the show and I had a few men reach out to me and say you know, thank you for, for saying the things that you're saying. You're saying what I've been thinking for the longest time. So we all have cell phones, we all have these computers in our pockets and we all text every day. And I'm telling you right now just a simple hey, no reason to text back. I was just thinking about you. I hope you're doing well, I hope you know that I'm here for you, and simple things like that.

Marc Paisant: 10:19

Because what I'll specifically say depression, Depression is very isolated and it's very selfish. We think the world is on fire and it's our fault and we can't do anything about it and we feel alone. And once that person says you're not alone, it opens up so many things. You don't have to be a doctor or therapist, you don't have to be someone that, like specializes in anxiety or ADHD or depression or bipolar or anything like that. All you have to do is use the two things on the side of your face and that's your ears, and we don't do a good enough job of listening and really responding to the cues that people give out.

Adrian Starks: 11:00

Oh yeah, you're right, we don't. We don't listen to those cues. We're just trying to find a way to fix them or fix the problem, and that's the issue right there. It's not about fixing, it's about understanding, and I like how you just have horrible things going on. It's like it's their personal responsibility that we're taking on that. We really don't have to, but we are, and I think that is something that needs to be addressed.

Adrian Starks: 11:32

We are also seeing Mark a rise in athletes that are going through depression. They're coming out publicly about this celebrities. So it is a good time now to really get into this idea or perspective about how do we resolve the conversation around that. So your experiences in your life growing up, you were dealing with some weight and confidence concerns which obviously impacted how you feel about yourself, which hence goes into a little bit of the depression perspective. Why did you decide to reshape your purpose in this feeling? What was the moment that you just said I'm done with this feeling of myself? I want to release the weight, I want to improve my confidence? Was there a particular moment or was there a number of steps that led up to that?

Marc Paisant: 12:22

There was a moment and I did what a lot of us do. After I graduated from college I went out too much, drank too much, ate the wrong foods, and always was like, oh, tomorrow, next week, I'm going to get on it. I did the whole joining a gym for 30 days and then not going and paying for an entire year. The one year.

Adrian Starks: 12:42

The one year they say resolution yes.

Marc Paisant: 12:47

And I even had a whole show that I did on why new year's resolutions don't work. That has put too much pressure on you because people are like I'm gonna lose weight, I'm gonna find somebody, I'm gonna make some more money. It's like man, you haven't done that the last 25 years but you're going to do it now. Like, calm down a little bit. And that's not me being mean, I'm trying to help people. I'm really trying to help people, add a little levity to it. But just so people know, I'm a twin. There's actually two of me in this world and Michael got things a lot quicker than I did married, he had kids, he's in the military, he got things before I did and I always kind of compared myself to him and it wasn't even really a comparison. It was more like I wish I could be like why can't I be more like my brother? That's what my parents want, that's what our friends want. I'm sure that's what so many people want. And even though I'm the older twin, if you were to meet us when we were younger, you would always think he was the older one, he was more mature. I was the happy-go-lucky, just goofing around having a good time, but I was masking a lot of feelings with my levity and my comedy, and only a few select people in my life could see through it. And you know my wife, for instance, like one of the first times we met she was like, why are you doing that? And I was like, well, I'm doing what? Like you, you don't have to do that. And I was like man, she saw right through me. That's, that's crazy. Um and so, as I become a young adult again, not doing the right things and you know my wedding photos I'm out of shape, I'm overweight, I feel terrible. And it got to a point where I started therapy and I started hearing the words that I was worth it, I was worthy of love and affection and appreciation, because I didn't think I was. And I'm not lying when I told you it took like years of therapy and years of hearing that for me to start to understand it. And one of the things that therapy really helped me with is understanding that comfortable is not the right place. To be. Comfortable is not the right place. I was comfortable going to work, coming home, watching TV, eating bad, going to sleep, doing it all over again.

Marc Paisant: 15:18

The moment that I decided and listen, I decided one year. I was going to do it, but I said I'm not doing it, january 1st, I'm going to pick just a random date in January and I'm just going to go outside and go for a run and see how it feels. It felt terrible, I'm not lying to you. It felt absolutely horrible, but I did it. I got it done and I started hearing those words that you know you're worth it, you can do it, like people are supporting you.

Marc Paisant: 15:47

So I did it again the next day and then when my friends help, my wife's help, I started to look at the food I was eating and it's like and then you see that one pound go down, then that two, and then five and 10, you're like wait a second, like I have power, like I. That is the thing that people don't realize is how much power they have, how much strength they have, and sometimes you have to be told and you have to be shown that. But we do have so much power and I just needed someone to like believe in me and trust in me. And it happened to be an absolute stranger.

Adrian Starks: 16:23

It did as in a therapist, but that's why I'm I'm an advocate for therapy because sometimes we need someone we've never met in our life to tell us that we're worth it. It's not an overnight thing, or, if you're going through it right now, to stick with it and find, like you were saying earlier, what works with you when it comes to coping. That is the healthy way, of course everyone and to know that you're different, you're going to respond differently to different things. It reminds me of when I went through therapy and you and I connect on a lot of levels here.

Adrian Starks: 17:07

I went through a moment where I went through a major divorce. It wasn't major, but for me at the time I thought it was major and it put me into a really deep state. And I remember someone saying you need to go to therapy and maybe talk about this. And I said I'm not going to therapy to sit on no couch. I have someone ask me questions about my childhood and all this stuff. No, not me. That was a story I had in my head. So I went in with resistance and it didn't work because I had resistance. But that therapist gave me a book. She said you need to read this. Come back to me when you're ready to open up a little bit more and we can talk, and I could stay away for about a couple of weeks, but then that voice creeped in again you're not worth it. And then I said I need to go somewhere where I can hear the voice say you are worth it. And this is what you're talking about with the support, and it really helped me out a lot. And I'm glad it helped you out because look at you today, man, you're here on this show and you're really spreading this message across the world.

Adrian Starks: 18:05

Now you're also a trainer. So I want to reiterate the importance of how you've meshed purposes together. You released the weight. I like to say released. You released the weight, you got healthier. Now you're saying okay, there's something going on here with this duality mental, physical. So you're a trainer. How does physical fitness tie in to mental health?

Marc Paisant: 18:33

physical fitness tie in to mental health. So I had this was a really this is a big turning point in my life where I had lost over a hundred pounds and I was. I liked the way I look, but I remember not liking the way I felt. And, um, I, I, I was in my office in, in, in, I want to say somewhere outside of Baltimore, maryland, when I lived up there. And so let me kind of tell you, I'm, I'm married, I, my wife and I, bought a house. We have two kids. She, you know, everything is kind of the check boxes are checked and I remember just thinking I need to call my. Something is not, something's not clicking, like something. I lost the way.

Marc Paisant: 19:15

I'm supposed to feel great about myself, like what I did, what I was supposed to do, like why is this not working? So I remember calling him on the phone and I felt good calling him, but by the end of the conversation I was crying to him Cause I was like I don't know what else to do, like I've done, I've done what I'm supposed to do, I've gotten healthy, I'm able to play with my girls, I'm married, I have like I've done everything. And he's like, hey, why don't you come in and let's start talking about this? And I said, okay, let's do it. And he put me on to some game real quick, which I didn't know at the time. And there is a fact that I wish I had that the numbers in front of me of the amount of people who lose the weight but still feel depressed because every time they look in the mirror they see the person that they used to be and I cannot tell you how many, how many days I starved myself and just went for longer runs and didn't eat and watched my carb intake, just to get smaller and smaller and smaller and just to feel worse and worse and worse to me. And if you were to like, look through my thirties, you would probably see years of really good physical fitness but at the same time, years of poor mental fitness. And then you'll see the next year, the opposite, and you'll probably see a weight gain and weight loss with that. So finally, about little, almost two years ago, and I said there's got to be, there's got to be a way I can combine these things. Like, how do I do? I can't just go like yo-yo dieting and yo-yo weight is more dangerous than keeping the weight on. It's horrible for your heart like that, it's terrible for your organs and and so I said wait a second. And this is clicked.

Marc Paisant: 21:04

One day I said I have a coach for my mental health, I have a therapist. Why why don't I have a coach for my physical health? And I said I'm going to get a personal trainer. I'm going to get one because I need someone to push me outside of my limits and, just like my therapist like I wouldn't get anywhere of my therapy sessions if I stayed comfortable why am I just going like running every day was comfortable for me, going to the gym and maybe doing 30 minutes and talking to people as comfortable for me. I need someone who's going to push me past my comfort zone physically. And that first session was was hell. That first session was terrible because he knew I was a former athlete. He said you should have never told me that.

Adrian Starks: 21:50

Should have never told me that he started pushing me.

Marc Paisant: 21:53

He started pushing me and then you know you have that little voice in the back of your head that's like listen, this is my life, I can quit. I can quit if I want to. I don't have to go back to him. Yeah, I paid for the session, but I can get my money back. I was like, why would you do that?

Marc Paisant: 22:06

And so what I started doing is I would have to mentally prepare myself to go into the training sessions and then I'd have to decompress afterwards. So I was using coping mechanisms for both physical and mental fitness. And then I started seeing a body that I hadn't seen in years and that light bulb went off. If you work hard and if you push yourself past your limits, mentally and physically, you can get to where you want to be. And I started using my workouts for stress relief, which why I hadn't done it in the past.

Marc Paisant: 22:40

I was more stressed leaving the gym because I hadn't lost enough weight and it's like wait a second. No, use it for stress relief. Use it to become a better version of yourself. Use it to show the girls you coach and the girls that you're a father of, and your friends and your family, that what hard work can do for you. Become a mentor, become a leader, like become that light that people need. And it all clicked for me and that's why I mean mentally and physically. I haven't been in this good of shape ever and it feels amazing physically.

Adrian Starks: 23:14

I haven't been in this good of shape ever and it feels amazing. That's great to hear. This idea of mental health is actually so important, because that is part of your health. Like you mentioned, there's so many that have the physical fitness but they don't have the mental health to match that. They're constantly chasing something.

Adrian Starks: 23:27

I think too that when constantly right and we're trying to. I think, too, when people are really trying to release more weight, release more weight, there's a part psychologically. I think this is how I was you're trying to erase that person and hopefully a new person just shows up.

Marc Paisant: 23:42

I want to say something to that real quick because every Facebook photo I could find whether it was my page or someone else's page of the old me. I deleted them or I untagged myself and people would be like, did you because you get notifications and people just go in my did you go in my picture from 2011? And I was like, yeah, that person doesn't exist anymore. And I want to tell people my therapist was so good at helping me forgive that person. That person is there. That person is there. Without that person, I wouldn't be me. And he's like don't hate that person, don't hate him, forgive him because you've become this out of that. So I had to mention once you said erase that person, like that, something. Just yes, you're thousand percent correct on that. It happens.

Adrian Starks: 24:37

I was there too, so we're talking about these mechanisms, the coping mechanisms of anxiety and depression. You gave us your story and what's happened and how you came to be. What action step can someone take today that can help them cope better or further with their anxiety and depression? Mark?

Marc Paisant: 25:00

I'll tell you what my coping mechanisms in the past have been. The negative ones have been food and just taking myself out, just becoming a loner and not talking to people and time. The thing I used to do is when I got really down or depressed or anxious, I would always tell myself okay, you know, this is how many days it's going to take for you to get better. I would do nothing and just wait for myself to get better, and I mean weeks went by where I was feeling down, just waiting for the day I'd wake up and feel better. That is not, at least for me. That was not a healthy way to do it. And we can use the cliche ones like hey, write down your feelings, you know, do some meditation, you know journal, talk to somebody, go for a walk, get in the sunlight, turn off all electronics and just sit by yourself, do your daily affirmations, which are all great. I'm not going to, I'm not knocking any of those things. Those are when you start like, literally, when you feel bad, if the sun's outside, go get the sun on your skin, because that automatically makes you feel better. If you yell into a pillow, if you breathe, for you know, 10 deep breaths in a row. That's going to make you feel better. I know those things.

Marc Paisant: 26:18

But there's one thing I like to offer people before they even start that journey, cause these are just quick fixes. These are just really quick fixes. I need people to start treating themselves like a friend, and what I mean by that is any one of my friends could call me and say Mark, I was in a car crash, mark, I hurt myself. Mark, I'm not feeling myself, mark, I need some money. I would automatically be nonjudgmental and help them, but I wouldn't do it for myself and a lot of us won't do that for ourselves.

Marc Paisant: 26:54

The first thing we'll do when we make a mistake is we'll tell ourselves how stupid we are, how we deserve what we get, how you know how can we be so like the? The self-talk is one of the worst things that we do to ourselves, and if we just reframe how we look at ourselves internally and put ourselves as a outside, external friend and start reacting and responding to our emotions, that way, it can change, and it can change quickly. I'm talking about days and weeks, not months or years. Like the first time you tell yourself oh, I'm so stupid. Then you stop for a second and you're like wait a second. No, I'm not stupid. Then you stop for a second and you're like wait a second. No, I'm not, I just made a mistake. Like you're okay, you're good, you're fine, and you start to reframe your thinking like that goes a long way into helping somebody deal with their, their mental issues great answer, my friend.

Adrian Starks: 27:49

That's a good first step for everyone listening today. This has been an amazing conversation, mark. What does living a purposeful life mean to you?

Marc Paisant: 28:01

You know, when I first saw the name of your show, I was so attracted to it because I'm like this is exactly what I've been trying to do the last 18 months to two years I feel like the first 40 some odd years of my life. I was kind of going through the motions and kind of having other people figure out what my story was going to be, and then I said, you know what? No, I'm going to live with intent. My purposeful life is doing things with intention and living with intent. Making sure when I go to the gym, I understand that I'm doing this for my health. It doesn't have to be physical health, it doesn't have to be to get bigger muscles or get lean, anything like that. I'm making myself a better person.

Marc Paisant: 28:46

When I go out and coach my girls, I'm not doing it because I need time to burn or have time to burn. I'm doing it because I'm trying doing it because I need, you know, time to burn, or I have time to burn. I'm doing it because I'm trying to instill in them the right attitudes, behaviors to become, you know, successful human beings in this world. And you know when I'm at my work I'm not overanalyzing where I think this is who I am Like. My job provides the money I need to live and provide for my family. My intent is what makes my life purposeful now and that's the best answer I have for this, because I really thought about that and intent and purpose really go hand in hand with me.

Adrian Starks: 29:29

Intent and purpose. I like that, Marcus. It's been absolutely amazing to have you on the show today, brother. You've been wonderful.

Marc Paisant: 29:36

Thank you, I appreciate it. I had a great time.

Adrian Starks: 29:38

Thank you for listening to your Purposeful Life and I'm your host, adrian Starks. Download this podcast on your platform of choice. Join me on my social media channels and be a part of the your Purposeful Life community. Subscribe to the YouTube channel and hit that like button. With a purpose. Come on now. Remember your human mess is the process. Let's help you shape your purpose your way.